Lord Finesse vs. Mac Miller could mean big problem for mixtapes in general. If Finesse wins, could call into question usage of existing instrumentals on any mixtape...but from where Eye sit, he's in the right.

Mac Miller Sued By Lord Finesse Over Mixtape Sample, With Potentially Wide-Ranging Implications

[www.billboard.biz]

Hey Everybody! I'm new here..explain this to me..How is Lord Finesse suing anyone if the original sample was never cleared? Another question: Why did Mac Miller do a video for a song knowing the beat wasn't his? This may definitely set a precedent which may lead to restraints on artists creatively...messed up indeed...

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First of all I wanna welcome you to the forum Hiphopchiq1, and thanks for the nice PM about joining up, I'm sure that LES Lady will be glad we got another woman helping hold shit down here for us!

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hiphopchiq1
Hey Everybody! I'm new here..explain this to me..How is Lord Finesse suing anyone if the original sample was never cleared?

The original sample may or may have not been cleared, but to be fair, sampling is another can of worms all together, without which Hip Hop would not exist. Beat jacking is something HIp Hop could exist fine without and basically MM jacked LF's instrumental as-is, didn't change a thing about it, rapped over it and never even gave Lord Finesse producer credit. Which really is what set him off the most was the way MM proceeded without LF's blessing even after he tried contacting him about it first. Mixtapes do this beat jacking all the time, usually goes without beef but not always as was the case with Pete Rock against Lupe Fiasco recently.

This is an excerpt from LF's facebook page:

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Lord Finesse
Mixtapes are a networking piece.. I ain't trying to stop mixtapes.. but you can't just straight rhyme over someone's instrumental.. shoot a video... Register the song... Then claim it as your own.. and when the other party steps to you you're not even being smart about the situation.. When you're telling my people he should be glad Mac's rhyming over his shyt... Fuck Outta Here... Anyone who knows Lord Finesse know.. my career is built from a grind.. 20 years of grinding.. So yeah I never had a gold or platinum record "Correct" But if you think I'm gonna let someone exploit what I earned and hustled for you're insane... sir

I get that mixtapes have been doing this kind of beat jacking stuff for ages, some done with a nod of respect to the OG artist and some done in defiance of the artist, and while I think LF sueing is a bit over the top, I think he's entitled to do it legally. But Eyegetzraw is absolutely right that this action may set a new precedence, and the once lax laws associated with mixtapes might get more stringent. I guess I can't blame LF for being pissed, it is his beat, the law is on his side because that is a copyright protected song regardless of the samples he used being cleared or not.

Will he win? I think if LF proceeds he will win but I doubt it would be a 10,000,000 dollar win, the song was never all that, frankly with that number I think he's over the top overpriced or just maybe he's just trying to prove a point, that he's not to be fucked with.

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hiphopchiq1
Another question: Why did Mac Miller do a video for a song knowing the beat wasn't his? This may definitely set a precedent which may lead to restraints on artists creatively...messed up indeed...

I think if Mac Miller would have been a little more forthcoming about this to Lord Finesse, maybe offered credit where credit was due, and changed it a bit at least enough to make his own this never would have happened.

Why did he do it at all? I don't know but I think it's lazy as fuck, he knows how to produce, flip it up a lil, don't just jack Finesses beat and be all like, "What!?!?!" when called out on it.

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@hiphopchiq1....sup, I'm new round these parts too ....well kinda, LOL ....but, welcome aboard!

In regards to your question as to whether LF cleared his sample....if he didn't, well it might a tiny bit hypocritical but, hey, if the publishers of the original tune didn't catch him and sue to get theirs then shame on them...but, at the end of the day, LF DID catch MM using his work and has every right to ask for compensation. The $$ amount is really irrelevant here...if he wins any amount, it sets a precedence for mixtape practices....

...here's a part of comments Eye posted elsewhere on a blog posting about the issue.........

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Me....
...if there IS a concern here, it's what the future of mix tapes will be. The loophole that was always used to escape this very issue that we see in this case was that mix tapes were not for sale, they were for promotional use only. But clearly, that has changed over the years...and speaks nothing of the quandary for services like You Tube. Where is the line between private recreational use and public distribution (promotional or not) to consumers? Today's mix tapes are nothing short of independent album releases. You Tube can (and does) act like a free distribution network of those releases. What this case really brings to question is the legality of a release and distribution model that heretofore existed on the fringe but has proved to be far more lucrative than originally intended.

Eye suspect that the usage of copywritten work on mix tapes and you tube clips is going become a lot less pervasive. Finesse has a strong case if he can demonstrate how Mac Miller's usage was linked to ANY financial gain. The "promotional" loophole will close and all bets will be off.

Adding to the above thought...sites like Dat Piff, who is apparently named in the suit as well, have also turned a profit from mixtapes. Although the distribution of the tapes may be free to the consumer, it generates revenue via advertising and "sponsored" content....in other words, some parties pay for their mixtapes to be featured on the site. In radio, this would be called "payola" but, in this distribution model it's perfectly legal. They do not, however, have the right to distribute material that violates copyright laws...much like You Tube and other social media sites....which is why content gets pulled off daily from those sites.

One last ironic thought regarding LF...If he DIDN'T clear the sample, his win may ultimately result in an even bigger loss because all this attention may attract the publishers of the original Oscar Peterson tune...in which case, you have the potential scenario where they could sue for the original tune, plus a % of whatever LF wins from his suit against MM....be careful what you wish for!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2012 09:53PM by EyeGetzRaw.

^Well put!

But I'd add, even if a new mixtape 'fair use' law is the outcome of all this, it's not going to effect the young guy trying to start from scratch. He doesn't have the budget for a producer, but he's got a whole shitload of 12"s and better verses so he's gonna do whatever it takes. The well established mixtape emcees might think twice before crossing a line, but the next kid is going to drop a mixtape like he or she sees fit, whatever it takes to make moves, they don't care what happens in this case.

It's a conundrum.

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“Lesser artists borrow... great artists steal.” - Igor Stravinsky
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