I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm just spread too thin to be much more than an occasional participator. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing but respect for the grind—providing a grazing pasture for record and music lovers is no doubt compelling—but I'm responsible for a (paid/editorial) role on more than one other site and a mag and for that reason they take precedence for me on the "music writing" front (I know that CDC isn’t looking for a music writer, but at the same time, the time and energy is similar).

There's nothing more exciting to me than talking and learning about, discovering and critiquing new and old music, but as you mentioned—and in some ways this is a fortunate thing—there are already these types of places. For me personally, I committed to other places first. For years I've been part of a small group that uses the Google Groups format (after formerly being together on earlier forums and then email for the most part) for music discussion, that gets the lion's share of my "just posting for fun" time. That said, I definitely gravitate towards discussions that are most interesting to me, rhecka your initial invite definitely sparked an interest and I've definitely been happy here because—and even with the relatively few posting members—there's such an eclectic taste for and knowledge of music.

Having said all that, I generally end up having several separate and ongoing conversations about music (as I’m sure most of us do). Obviously it's nice to have a one-stop shop, and places like this and DWG definitely provide a Hip Hop friendly zone that can scratch an itch for soul/funk/jazz as well, but I still end up at a half dozen different sites to process music (modern African releases, contemporary or reissues, being another). To me, the forums are great for the knowledge of other members and shared likes, a random someone poking around here may well not find anything musically that's up their alley upon immediate inspection.

You mentioned the vinyl subreddit rchecka, obviously the main difference is traffic, they're already signed up on Reddit and are more than happy to hear congratulations on their latest pick-up ("yo man, where'd you get that Dark Side Of The Moon album, I've been looking for it and can't seem to find it"). It all seems to boil down to your question: "Why can't we get some newbs who want to ask good questions and learn more? I want this place to be for newbs and veterans alike, are we too snobby and therefore intimidating them? If so, how can we reach them? " I don’t mean to be snarky, but I don’t know, why can’t you? I personally know next to nothing about generating site traffic and following that type of data, but clearly getting them here in the first place must be the biggest issue? I'm sure people stumble upon this place as a result of random music Google searches ("artist X” + “release Y” + “vinyl") and your blog (I imagine your shelf plans generate some very nice traffic), but if you want to be welcoming to complete newcomers, there's gotta be a big bold sign that says "FIRST TURNTABLE AND GETTING STARTED" somewhere and a detour for other users. That subreddit is so popular because Reddit is so popular, redirecting some of those subredditors here will not be easy but if it’s suggested nicely and often enough, I think folks will end up here (I think just as many people are put off by the immediate contact newbness over there as they are by douchey “man you’re a noob” commenters). But if you want them here, I think you need to be prepared for a self-congratulatory culture, that’s what people want to hear. Even us—the few of us here that actually consistently buy and show off records—clearly like to hear “man that is dope!” and “what do you think of it? Should I buy it too?”, new collectors will want to hear the same thing and they’ll want a pat on the back for their latest picks. Pitch this place as an all vinyl friendly zone and maybe add a welcome message that will artificially hold their hand along the first two steps. My main point is that I can imagine someone stumbling on CDC and not knowing any of the music that is being posted on their first look, a lot of times that’s inspiring (“man, I need to be up on some of this stuff”) but more than often I think it’s off-putting because the very first step that needs to be taken is research (“there’s nothing here for me”).

In any case, unfortunately I can’t be that other investor in CDC, I’m happy to continue poking around here and—and again, I really don’t mean to sound like a snarky asshole—but build it and they will come. I know it seems like the building is done and the infrastructure here is immediately welcoming, but nobody ends up going into an empty restaurant. To carry the metaphor to the end in a cliche way, I think you need to make a deal on the appetizers, a good first experience/post here will go a long way in potentially holding on to a customer, I think implementing a more noob-friendly welcome from the jump (again, first turntable, setting up a preamp, how to clean your records) will go a long way. Sorry for the long post, those are my two cents.

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vamosarapiar
I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm just spread too thin to be much more than an occasional participator. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing but respect for the grind—providing a grazing pasture for record and music lovers is no doubt compelling—but I'm responsible for a (paid/editorial) role on more than one other site and a mag and for that reason they take precedence for me on the "music writing" front (I know that CDC isn’t looking for a music writer, but at the same time, the time and energy is similar).

Of course, work should come first. And quite frankly if I didn't own my own business I'd probably be fired for spending way too much time on this non-related-to-work website. So I don't expect anyone to put obligations second. If anyone has a busy week I don't expect them to post. However, at the same time, often it only takes moments to drop a quick comment. Sometimes those quick comments keep the ball rolling and if anyone has time to lurk, then they got a few seconds to post something somewhere.

As you eluded to with the reddit comment, when you drop pictures of your records, you like it when people comment on that or ask questions, that feedback is why you want to keep sharing. That is true for all members on all forums, sometimes you have to feed the beast so the beast keeps on living. Do you have to comment on threads you could care less about? Of course not, only comment where you have something to say. (BTW: I'm not talking to just you Vamos, it's my request for everyone.) Nor do I expect you to ever give up the places you visited first or visit more. This isn't ever gonna be a one stop forum, Reddit tries to do that and even that behemoth clusterfuck fails at being a one stop forum.

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vamosarapiar
It all seems to boil down to your question: "Why can't we get some newbs who want to ask good questions and learn more? I want this place to be for newbs and veterans alike, are we too snobby and therefore intimidating them? If so, how can we reach them? " I don’t mean to be snarky, but I don’t know, why can’t you? I personally know next to nothing about generating site traffic and following that type of data, but clearly getting them here in the first place must be the biggest issue? I'm sure people stumble upon this place as a result of random music Google searches ("artist X” + “release Y” + “vinyl") and your blog (I imagine your shelf plans generate some very nice traffic), but if you want to be welcoming to complete newcomers, there's gotta be a big bold sign that says "FIRST TURNTABLE AND GETTING STARTED" somewhere and a detour for other users. That subreddit is so popular because Reddit is so popular, redirecting some of those subredditors here will not be easy but if it’s suggested nicely and often enough, I think folks will end up here (I think just as many people are put off by the immediate contact newbness over there as they are by douchey “man you’re a noob” commenters). But if you want them here, I think you need to be prepared for a self-congratulatory culture, that’s what people want to hear. Even us—the few of us here that actually consistently buy and show off records—clearly like to hear “man that is dope!” and “what do you think of it? Should I buy it too?”, new collectors will want to hear the same thing and they’ll want a pat on the back for their latest picks. Pitch this place as an all vinyl friendly zone and maybe add a welcome message that will artificially hold their hand along the first two steps. My main point is that I can imagine someone stumbling on CDC and not knowing any of the music that is being posted on their first look, a lot of times that’s inspiring (“man, I need to be up on some of this stuff”) but more than often I think it’s off-putting because the very first step that needs to be taken is research (“there’s nothing here for me”).

That is an excellent suggestion (top bold) and I agree completely. Even though there are all kinds of newb resources out there as well, there is no reason we can't do the same thing here. Actually, I am one step ahead of you and I'll get to that shortly.

Re: the second bolded statement, that is also a valid point. But hardly one that can be addressed. We are gonna post the stuff we like whether it's some advanced beat digging rare record or whether it's Bob Dylan's greatest hits. I think that we are all pretty good at expressing our passion on a wide variety of "no brainer music" and "eclectic rarities". But if a Bob Dylan fan comes on the wrong day and he ONLY likes Dylan, he's gone in less than 30 seconds.

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vamosarapiar
In any case, unfortunately I can’t be that other investor in CDC, I’m happy to continue poking around here and—and again, I really don’t mean to sound like a snarky asshole—but build it and they will come. I know it seems like the building is done and the infrastructure here is immediately welcoming, but nobody ends up going into an empty restaurant.

You hit the nail on the head with the restaurant comment. That, my friend, is the current problem we are facing every day. We are an almost empty restaurant, but we have a good lunch buffet from time to time. In our case, we have a good restaurant and about 100 people peering thru our front windows looking at our menu and then saying, "Ehh, I had Asian food yesterday." then they jump into their minivans and drive away and if they are Asian people they get about 2 miles away before crashing into another Asian driver for not using their turn signal. (TOTALLY KIDDING, GAWD CHILL!) (Not ALL Asians are bad drivers, just joking!) The thing is, our restaurant food that is being gawked at by the 100 people lurking outside is not made by the chef of our restaurant, it's brought in by everyone here and shared as a community meal. I been doing all the cooking lately and I'm just not that good at cooking Asian cuisine. How do you fill an empty restaurant when there's only one or two people eating inside? Well that's the problem, and the solution is more people bring more food as often as possible so that it looks like a great place to eat. This isn't too much to ask, don't spread yourself thin if you are busy, but on the moments you aren't slammed, at least bring in pot stickers.

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vamosarapiar
... I think implementing a more noob-friendly welcome from the jump (again, first turntable, setting up a preamp, how to clean your records) will go a long way. Sorry for the long post, those are my two cents.

I do want more newbs, and I will do my best to cater to that crowd but yall have to do so as well. All of us are nice people, patient with easy questions, I'm not concerned about that, but we are also particular to a certain dish so it is a fine line of having plenty of eager newbs with good questions and being a total newb-land bursting at the seems with "Why is my needle skipping all the time?" I want the vets to help the newbs, but that means the vets have to keep bringing food every so often and the newbs have to be encouraged that we are very accommodating to occasional newb questions. The whole "The only stupid question is one that is not asked" mentality.

I have been stewing on this issue for weeks and I have some plans but most of the planning will be wasted if things go on as they have been lately. Just like many things in life, sometimes for something to work, you gotta throw money at it and this is no exception. I am throwing more money at it, please help me by throwing time at it. You don't have to be an investor V, no one does, but I do need a real partner to help me realize the true potential of this place. To be a investor or one of my partners means it matters as much to that person as it does to me to make this a success, which means it's twice as likely to succeed, or even more likely with more than 2 people that are in it for the long haul. I need contributors doing what they can any way they can, and really all that equates to is their time. Time is money, I get it, so I'll take care of the money if someone else wants to take a bigger role by contributing their time. I realize, I am being vague about what I mean by investors, but I will be specific after the plan is crystal clear. If we do this right, the investor will actually receive more than what they put in. I will make sure the volunteer(s) are compensated one way or another, even if that means money exchanging hands. Once the role is clear, specifics will come.

I am glad to have you and all the members I have V, I consider you a VIP here so don't hesitate to say "The time I have is all I have to give" but at the same time please see where I am coming from when I am asking to get a little more milk out of your man-nipples.

I will reveal the "plan" to you all soon, but it is still a rudimentary one in the staging process, so bear with me while I work out the details before letting the cat out of the bag. In the meantime, everyone please continue adding ideas\discussions here. I take all of your input very seriously.

Well, OK, I guess I can throw a hint your way, the entire Home page is being replaced. OfficialPeriodic.com is not going away, but something much more relevant and MUCH bigger will be our home page. The investor\partner(s) I speak of will be an integral part to realizing this home page AND this forum as well. Officialperiodic will be a separate entity and will be cross-linked but it no longer is a relevant home base for what we do here at CDC and I can't ignore that any longer. I need to throw money at that too, the whole "shit or get off the pot" with OP T-Shirts and merchandise has been in the back of my mind for a long time, but throwing money at OP won't effect CDC, so I'll be realistic about keeping them separate entities. I still see products on the horizon for OP, but this forum and it's purpose comes before anything else.
I bought the home page domain name, and I am designing the site, so stand by for the big reveal, and it goes without saying that it's name and content will be directly based on what we do here on this forum. Don't hold your breath for the big reveal, it's a lot of work, but I'll definitely keep everyone informed.

Again, keep the ideas coming, brainstorm anything that you feel we are lacking. Your ideas effect both this forum and the new home page.

Should we open up the general forum to everyone? I am hesitant to do so cuz I fear some of our more private amongst friends banter may not be as candid when a million lurkers are reading our vents about cold coffee or whatever. I am also hesitant to do so because I fear no one will even have a reason to log in and everyone will lurk all the time! Imagine how many more people would have read this thread (current read is at 51) if this forum was open? A lot more reads and a lot less answers, that's what I fear.

Should we have a general question forum or something like that for the newbs that is more, i don't know, PSA related?

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“Lesser artists borrow... great artists steal.” - Igor Stravinsky
OP OP Blog CDC
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RChecka
They are primarily a British membership so I thought this place would be a welcome addition to the lack of American based crate digging forums. While neither they or we pigeonhole ourselves into our own locale and neither they or we discriminate against any countries at all, they draw much more Londoners for that reason due to the common ground while we basically get what we get, which is a good thing but there should be much more of it.

Always loved how the good cats from across the pond represented and respected the trade.Only I couldn't get down because frankly there wasn't enough people with my same experiences and interest.

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RChecka
but they are justifiably satisfied with what they have and I think to some degree comfortable with the usual routine. Not to mention they are a lot more cliquey and I think that frankly many of them are uninterested in even reading perspectives that aren't their own. Of course this isn't a slam against the entire forum, it's just an obvious observation from another DWG member who sees it routinely from certain snobbier members. Many of those guys are really good people, a few who dwell there dwell here as well, so this observation is definitely not aimed at all the good fam at DWG, but I'm sure those who go there as well can see what I'm saying is true about the closed mindedness with certain key players.

I thought the same about OSHH,after the first year or so that I was a regular there.Forums are about open mindedness.If people don't get that aspect of it,then I guess they never will.People have to understand that everyone brings a different expertise to the table.If you pick from each plate you get filled up faster.

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RChecka
OSHH turned into a clique and chased away a lot of cats that were there for years because they (we) could no longer fit in with the elitists and holier than though attitude that now reigns supreme. Troy L (that's right, I don't mind dropping names) thinks his shit, and his friends' shit smells like rose petals, they squashed not only troublemakers but took it to an extreme and banned those who simply disagree with them. In the process, they banned debate and basically only welcome their own personal yes men and those willing to stroke their egos. I couldn't even disagree with anyone there without getting the "God loves you and I pray for you to change" speech. They deleted a post I started because it had a pot reference in it and John G didn't think that a marijuana reference was relevant to Hip Hop (I can't even make this shit up, that's a joke but so true) That place seemed to turn into a ghost town over night due to these types of bad decisions, it is still there but it is a tiny little speck of a forum compared to what it was when they were open minded to outsiders and outside ideas. It didn't die, but it changed so much so that it might as well be dead since all independent thought and lively debate and even joshing around is dead. If we make the wrong decisions here, this place will also die.

This is America.America is supposed to be built upon having certain unalienable rights.Every one has their own opinion,that is what makes them individually special.Collectively, they make the group special.When you alienate this type of though and pretense you do not serve yourself favor.As you know RC, me and Troy were very tight.I stop contributing to that site for sometime now because I no longer agreed with the premise.You have to let people express themselves.Moderation is suppose to be like fireman.People do not call them everytime they burn a meal.True and spirited debate is the only way to overcome prejudices.It increases knowledge and hindsight.If we all agreed with one another
we would essentially all be the same person.Who wants that?There were cats there I disagreed with, debated with and even argued with,
but from an entertainment perspective, I had enjoyed myself.I never thought of malice toward anyone, it was all in good fun.My deal was that if Hip Hop represented the streets, then the forums should be the same.A bunch of people talking about a bunch of topics.A diss every now and then,some disrespect might show up, a curse or two,or three..just people being people.That was the Hip Hop that I grew up acknowledging.

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RChecka
or in your case Beatmaster, quiz Bob James on if he was actually Bob James or not via mind battle (I'll never forget that and I still don't know if it was or wasn't really him) or Grandmaster Mele Mel and other old School legends, they dwelled, you asked, they answered, it was really a cool place.

Haha, you remember that? Well,I can't take any credit or blame for that.It was two part.
One, there is not many people left around with more knowledge about Verve,Impulse and CTI than this brother.
Been digging them artist since I was in grade school.Two,I already knew that it was another OSHH member.I got my sources too.
So in the words of Jeff Goldblum...There you have it.

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RChecka
DJF the Hip Hop section was another sub forum I dwelled, they went down due to some royal fuckups by their Internet hosts, and by the time they fixed it, everyone moved on. If you go into that Hip Hop section now all you see is spaz boy Sigma talking about his scratching skills, a regular spam post by a dumbass so-called rapper, or a check out this guys scratch video discussion. Not one person in that forum besides a few who lurk actually knows jack shit about Hip Hop music and they still call themselves a Hip Hop sub forum. I hate to be a downer, but I when I saw all that happen to those places, I swore I would fight it from happening at this place, and I hope that I am not seeing the first stages of that happening. But unless things get better, unless regulars get more involved, unless growth continues upwards, the writing may be on the wall, and I can't fight the writing forever.

The dilemma RC, is that sadly there just really isn't that many people around that really know about Old School Hip Hop,and better yet,Hip Hop in general.Alot of the newb's just do not have the experience,exposure or knowledge of the massive amount of music that passed through which is now over 30 years.

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RChecka
Why can't we get some newbs who want to ask good questions and learn more? I want this place to be for newbs and veterans alike, are we too snobby and therefore intimidating them? If so, how can we reach them?

Like Vamo said RC,I guess we have to find a way to hold their hand during the first few steps or simplify the beginnings to the point that they
can feel relatively comfortable in hanging around to check out a few post here and there.

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RChecka
I don't mind catering to new ideas and new cultures, but I don't know how to even begin to do so, so yes, I want specific ideas. I can install all kinds of language translation files that translates these English words to any other language, so I WILL do this, but that won't break down the barriers. That won't do anything to immediately fix anything, it's a small step that might help at some point but not anytime soon.

When in rome,do as the romans do.Other cultures are very different from us.People have to be willing to bridge the gaps,
be patient and eliminate the practice of being judgmental.This is the recipe for any site to open it's doors to the rest of the world.The translation software can only take you but so far,you have to have a few people involved that can navigate through the different languages.Difficult but not impossible.When I met my wife in Orlando,Florida. I barely could understand wtf she was talking about,so I joined a couple of websites.One in particular..www.livemocha.com and learned to basically hold my own in the language.It was not easy,but if you study hard enough you can learn anything.What I meant by taking you but so far, is that eery language like our own has a multitude of slang embedded into the language itself.So somethings do not translate into other things.Ex...our word "legal" means "cool" in brasilian portuguese.Imagine how something as simple as that could fuck some convo.

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RChecka
I also don't want anyone to think we are strictly a Hip Hop forum, all of us are very versed in all kinds of music. Sure we cater to Hip Hop, why wouldn't we? But I don't wanna scare away anyone who is a funk expert or punk expert or whatever. They are just as important to the real point of this place and that's discussion of music. You all know that Hip Hop uses elements of ALL genres so they are no less relevant here, it's all about the love. Can I make it somehow less intimidating to Non-Hip Hop heads?

You're going to absolutely cringe when I say this...but you fam so I have to give you my opinion.
I, like many others have not talked periodic tables since I was in sixth grade.So right out of the gate for many,they will see it and immediately think about science, something complex.They do not have the where with all to dig the way you are laying it down.They see it as a confusing road sign that kicks you off the interstate and takes you into parts unknown.People love the simple and the familiar.A record, a turntable, a microphone,a bass bottom,etc..are images that people associate with.A periodic table makes people think.
the 20 seconds are up and they have moved on.I for one, always liked it and dug the premise,but that is just me.

Just my humbles,RC

Peace my brother.

Will return with some comments on Vam's good post when I get the next minute....

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BM31

You're going to absolutely cringe when I say this...but you fam so I have to give you my opinion.
I, like many others have not talked periodic tables since I was in sixth grade.So right out of the gate for many,they will see it and immediately think about science, something complex.They do not have the where with all to dig the way you are laying it down.They see it as a confusing road sign that kicks you off the interstate and takes you into parts unknown.People love the simple and the familiar.A record, a turntable, a microphone,a bass bottom,etc..are images that people associate with.A periodic table makes people think.

Not cringing at all at that comment, I agree completely and I'm actually one step ahead of you. You might have missed my words above (that's ok, there's a lot of words there LOL) where I admit it's time for a more relevant home page so I am in the process of building one right now. It will be relevant to cratedigging and music appreciation and nothing more. It will be a reference guide. It will have what Vamos mentioned (basically) and much more. I am creating the structure of the site right now, I'll keep you all informed when it's realized, but as of now I am note taking on what you guys bring to the table here in terms of ideas. Official Periodic isn't going anywhere it just will not be CDCs home page any longer. I have realized a while back that OP was not cutting it as a relevant home page any longer, but it's not being scrapped, instead it's being revamped.

So yeah it really wasn't Bob James then? LMAO, who was it? I'll keep your secret, do tell LOL.

more updates later, keep em coming guys.

---

“Lesser artists borrow... great artists steal.” - Igor Stravinsky
OP OP Blog CDC
Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | Beat Junkies Blog

That's a good deal,RC.Your like King Midas as I was told everything that you touch turns to gold... haha.

Yes,that's true and it was so painfully obvious, I was actually shocked that it actually went on as long as it did.
RC, the legendary Bob James was clueless when it came to Hip Hop in general.The last thing he would have done was joined a Hip Hop website.His love is classical music and incorporated a lot of it in his style of fusion.You can hear it a lot in his early works.Hell, it's in Nautilus itself.You can drop by youtube and check out any of his most recent interviews and hear him say it himself.There is a good one in where he talks about a collab with DJ Swift in 2010.In which he admits he had a very hard time connecting his world into the beats and mechanisms that bring forth our Hip Hop music.

As far as the culprit...you already know.You don't even need a hint.
Just think about it.

Peace